Stephen Stills : Old Times, Good Times [Participation]

Une idée encore meilleure! (qui, cependant, pas exclu l'ancien ... )

Dans le coffret il y a deux titres avec du Jimi dedans n'oublié pas le succulent Old Times, Good Times

mandrake a écrit:

J'ai le coffret

Alors elle vaut quoi cette "No Name Jam" ?????

YM

Yazid a écrit:

mandrake a écrit:

J'ai le coffret

Alors elle vaut quoi cette "No Name Jam" ?????

YM

+1

BOF

Merci MagicMan !

J'aime bien ce titre ! Dommage que ça ne dure pas 5 minutes ou plus.
Intéressant d'entendre Jimi jouer en entrelacement comme ça avec un autre guitariste de taille. Unique en fait - sur les jams avec Jim McCarty, Larry Lee ou McLaughlin (avec sa gratte défaillante) les autres guitaristes jouent en appui mais là, les deux sont en full attaque.

Je ne partage pas ton enthousiasme. Ce sujet remonte à l'ancien forum - c'est dire s'il date... On nous promet un album Hendrix/Stills vous allez voir ce que vous allez voir... et au final... une jam charcutée de deux minutes et quarante secondes... Comme le remarque notre magicien préféré : bof !

Charcuté ? Oh merde. On connait la durée du jam original?

Ca se laisse écouter, mais ça sent un peu le bricolage.

Stills à propos du coffret et des sessions avec Jimi :

Rolling Stone: After these sessions with Hendrix were rediscovered, did you wonder if there was anything else that you'd forgotten about?

Stills: No. What was forgotten was that there was a lot of loitering. Of course we just said "Just record everything we do," and so there are boxes and boxes of two-inch tape of barely decipherable conversation, laughing, and someone would occasionally pick up an instrument and clunkety-clunk. Boxes of loitering! There is one song that Jimi did that I gave to [Hendrix's estate] because it's just him. And then I had another one which I turned into an instrumental eventually, because I wasn't happy with the title and the words never came, and it was kind of in the wrong key. The way the session had started, he came in to do overdubs on it. Then there was another one, when he came to New York, and I was showing him my arrangement of "Woodstock," before I showed it to the boys. And then I played on something of his – but the discovery was that the "hidden Jimi Hendrix tapes" didn't really have much on them. Just a lot banging and talking and "maybe let's do this," and then "Jim, let's go to Tramps," or something. It wasn't the goldmine we thought it was going to be. Everyone made very much of a myth out of it. None of it really backed up. I have this one great song. There might be some other great stuff – who knew? It was 30 years ago, and we were hammered.

Source : http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-stephen-stills-on-huge-new-box-set-20130321

Ayler a écrit:

Stills à propos du coffret et des sessions avec Jimi :

And then I played on something of his –

- "Somewhere"

Ayler a écrit:

Stills à propos du coffret et des sessions avec Jimi :

There is one song that Jimi did that I gave to [Hendrix's estate] because it's just him.

- Mystère !

Ayler a écrit:

Stills à propos du coffret et des sessions avec Jimi :

And then I had another one which I turned into an instrumental eventually, because I wasn't happy with the title and the words never came, and it was kind of in the wrong key.

- "White Nigger" qui est devenue "No Name Jam" ?

Ayler a écrit:

Stills à propos du coffret et des sessions avec Jimi :

Then there was another one, when he came to New York, and I was showing him my arrangement of "Woodstock," before I showed it to the boys.

- Live And Let Live" ?

Autre article :

“It was done at the time of my first solo album. The original drums didn’t make it because they were on the edge of the tape. Joe Vitale did a really great drum part, and I did a bass part to make it clearer. When I got it back, I said, ‘This sounds like the original.’ On the original recording, I think it’s [drummer] Conrad [Isedor] and [bassist] ‘Fuzzy’ [Calvin Samuel].
“Jimi just walked into the studio, plugged in, and we practiced it twice. I sat down and tried to write some lyrics, but I never finished them. Jimi was nonplussed with the title, and so was I. In years since, it developed more of a cringe-factor. So I just decided to call it the ‘Jimi Jam,’ and there you go.
“It’s not like I was sitting on it for four decades, but I would have liked to have put more into it – put a real set of lyrics on it and so forth. It is what it is, and it’s certainly Jimi Hendrix – you can certainly tell that much.
“Jimi was a real gentleman and just the sweetest person in the world. He wanted me to play bass with him on tour after he came to loggerheads with Noel Redding. The jam is something of a bittersweet memory for me. I wish I had made it more of a song.”

Source : musicradar.com

J'ai trouvé les crédits suivants pour cette "No Name Jam" sur le net (à confirmer tout de même) :

No Name Jam–Stephen Stills & Jimi Hendrix (2:39) (Stills/Hendrix)

Stephen Stills: electric guitar, organ.
Jimi Hendrix: lead electric guitar.
Calvin Samuels: bass.
Conrad Isidor: drums.
Produced by Stephen Stills & Bill Halverson for Gold Hill Music, Inc.
Basic track recorded by Andy Johns at Island Recording Studios, London, March 1970.
Track was recorded with Stills, Samuels and Isidor. Previously unreleased jam.
Stephen Stills' guitar overdubs recorded by Stanley Tajima Johnston at Stray Gator Sound, 2012.
Mixed by Stanley Tajima Johnston with Graham Nash at Decibel Transfer & Storage, Los Angeles, 2012.

Crédits

Que le titre soit cosigné par Hendrix est fort de café !

Purple Jim a écrit:

Stills a écrit:

And then I had another one which I turned into an instrumental eventually, because I wasn't happy with the title and the words never came, and it was kind of in the wrong key.

- "White Nigger" qui est devenue "No Name Jam" ?

Oui. C'est bien une version instrumentale de "White Nigger" ! Après les instrumentaux qui deviennent des titres chantés ("Somewhere"), on a le droit cette fois-ci à l'opération inverse : un titre chanté qui devient un instrumental. Le titre de la chanson ("White Nigger") explique certainement l'opération car les prises de chant qu'on entend sur la version pirate fonctionnent plutôt bien.
Après, cela explique l'aspect décousu de l'instrumental : c'est une chose de faire un solo, c'en est une autre de jouer des fills entre les vers d'un couplet chanté.

Purple Jim a écrit:

Charcuté ? Oh merde. On connait la durée du jam original?

Overdubs posthumes + chant supprimé = beau charcutage non ?

"Stephen Stills' guitar overdubs recorded by Stanley Tajima Johnston at Stray Gator Sound, 2012".

Donc, même la guitare de Stills est récent ! N'importe quoi.

Et le pire de tout:

Nous ne pouvons pas blâmer Janie!, ni Kramer ...

Oui c'est très bof... Je ne prends pas mon pied. Le titre "White Nigger" avait une toute autre allure !

Et même si je ne suis pas un expert du bricolage de morceau, là je trouve que ça s'entend énormément et ça pue vraiment.

Quelle déception...

Stephen Stills à propos de Jimi et du coffret :

There’s a staggering amount of music on this box.

“I became overwhelmed more than a year ago. Graham Nash and Joel Bernstein did the heavy lifting here. … Joel was the cave-digger. He’d go in and find these old obscure things, and somebody had to listen to all of the 13 boxes of me and Jimi Hendrix, things like that. Unfortunately, we discovered there was a lot of loitering. I said ‘Push record, record everything we do’ because it was Jimi Hendrix. (Laughs) There’s a party, then there’s Buddy Miles talking loudly, then there’s silence, then there’s tuning, then half a verse…it’s just loitering, I swear to God. There’s one nice piece of his that I gave to the estate. And then there’s the one that used to be called ‘White…’ and I don’t even say that word anymore.”

Originally called “White N*****” that song has leaked in the past; here you wiped off the vocals, left on your and Jimi’s guitars and called it “No Name Jam.” The song was originally a cry against racism.

“We never came up with what we wanted to say. I never came up with quite the right set of lyrics. So I just played guitar along with it…. Having long hair in America at that time was a little bitty taste of what it was like to be black in America. And that’s what we were trying to get out in that song.”

(...)

People don’t realize how deep your relationship with Hendrix was.

“He was just alone in England. … I got to follow my influences around. Jimmy Page and Clapton and Jimi was around… it was those damn Stones you had to be careful of… Jimi and I were pretty close. … He was trying to show me how to play (like him) and his hands were the size of Julius Irving’s. We’d be stuck in a hotel room when I’d visit him on the road on that Monkees tour. I said ‘Jimi, put your hand up. Your index finger is fully an inch longer than mine and your thumb is longer than that.’"

Is the story true that Jimi tried to recruit you to join his band?

“The Hendrix people called David Geffen and said 'Jimi’s looking for Stephen.' They put him off for the longest time. I’d flown from London to Los Angeles … something about sleeping the whole way and getting into my car was baffling to me. I crashed into a car and hurt my hand…. He finally got me on the phone and I’d broken my hand. I said I’d be available in a little bit. I never heard back from him again. But I didn’t find out until Mitch Mitchell’s book that they had a row that went on for months between Noel Redding and Jimi and he really did want me to come play bass, at least for one tour.”

And he didn’t live long enough for that to happen.

“When you’re young you’re impervious to everything. You can’t be hurt unless you drive into a lorry at 100 m.p.h. or stupidly mix the wrong chemicals. Unfortunately that’s what happened to him. I was back in California waiting to find out… and saw it on the telly. Devastating. I was so mad. Everyone used to shove everything at him at the clubs and there are some things that just don’t go together. I learned that early on in Greenwich Village.”

Source : msn.com

Ayler a écrit:

Stephen Stills à propos de Jimi et du coffret :

(...)
Your archives are hugely deep, plus you recorded a lot of live shows back in the day when that was very, very expensive.

“We were waiting for Pro Tools to be invented because a lot of it needed to be massaged. … a lot of it is just dreadful. We were excited, it was loud, there were girls!”
(...)

Source : msn.com

Je parie que Steve aime PH & A...

Malheureusement, après l'attente, nous avons "Somewhere" avec mélange de pistes à la ProTools et "White Nigger" transformé en "No Name Jam" avec des overdubs de 2012. Quel anti-climax.

10 ans après l'annonce d'un album Hendrix/Stills par John McDermott ("Stephen has been working with Experience Hendrix to compile an album's worth of sessions recorded with Jimi Hendrix during 1969 and 1970"), on commence à y voir plus clair. Un source anonyme, citée par musicradar précisait dès 2008 : "We have tapes in our archive - Jimi on guitar and bass - plus Stephen had some from his 1970 solo album that he wanted to finish, fix and mix. From a musical point of view, it's definitely Stephen with Jimi helping - as opposed to a joint collaboration. But it is still a very nice project.".

En plus du matériel déjà publié par le passé, sont finalement sortis les morceaux suivants :
Stephen Stills : No-Name Jam (version instrumentale du "White Nigger" - le politiquement correct est passé par là...)
Stephen Stills : $20 Fine
Stephen Stills : Woodstock
Jimi Hendrix : Somewhere #2

Pour avoir une idée de ce qu'un tel album aurait pu donner, vous pouvez aussi consulter cette page de CTT.

A noter l'importance des producteurs dans le droit américain : les morceaux "produits" par Jimi (pour "$20 Fine" et "Woodstock", c'est lui qui finance les heures de studio) deviennent cinq décennies plus tard des morceaux de Jimi Hendrix - quand bien même le véritable artiste leader est, clairement, Stephen Stills.

Avec "Old Times, Good Times", "My Friend", voire "The Things I Used To Do", on était pas loin d'avoir un album qui tienne la route (avec quelques jams ?), avec un vrai concept derrière. De plus, Stills aurait pu en faire la promotion.

Très intéressant, Ayler. J'ai beaucoup écouté les enregistrements solo de Steve Stills, surtout à partir de 1968. Malheureusement, ça ne sonne pas très bien. Je dois réécouter Mannassas. Mais je ne pense pas être le seul à être convaincu que Stills a besoin des autres pour vraiment faire quelque chose vraiment beau.